Rugby 25 Ruck Systems Attack & Defence

Rugby 25
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There seems to be a lot of unknowns about what influence adding players to the ruck seems to have. There also seems to be plenty of players who aren’t happy with the actual game-play system at ruck time.

Not since Jonah Lomu Rugby has there been any real mechanism for winning at ruck time and that was a lot of fun with contest after contest for the ball.

Admittedly, that system would appear unrealistic today, but there’s still room for a mechanism that could help your forwards blow over the ball and win possession.

One possibility would be that if you timed a button press (perhaps a thumbstick click in), for each of the first three forwards hitting the ruck, then if timed well it increased their hitting power and significantly increased the possibility of winning the ball back. If this bonus increased each of the first 3 players hitting power by 10%, then that’s a big increase in the likelyhood of winning back the ball.

Of course this factor wouldn’t be the sole deciding factor of the ruck outcome, players skill set and weight should also be important, but it would be a significant one.

In two player, it could come down to who had the better input timing to create better hits, pushing the ruck back etc.

In the end, it’d be nice to have a game-play mechanism, rather than just some sort of simulation based solely on player data, as in how it seems now.

I’m sure there are many different ways to make things work, but in the end it’s the core of rugby and for it not to be a game within the game, it seems to be pretty lacklustre.

I really hope that Big Ant find some way to make ruck play a significant part of the game.

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I believe the idea is there, just not well implemented yet. If you see the tutorial it explanes the system, the problem is , it does not translate into the game, not yet at least. With timing and the three different buttons, it should be enough for a good system.

  1. one works best with isolation, jackle. Depending on the tackle and I have seen when tackling with the shoulder button and B if you tackle strait on you have a good chance at a standing tackle, which should give you and advantage, for the steal because you are already on your feet, the animation is there and it is quicker then normal tackle, just needs to be sped up and alllow you to jackle afterwards, now, the offensive player should have a chance to hold on, with risk to penalty for holding on.(Like Rugby Challenge 3)
  2. The bind button should work like this, if you are able to bind 2-3 players on defense to the offensive teams 1-2 player , depending on who is enter the ruck you have a better chance for a push over. ( I saw a pushover on offense in this game) The ruck was contested by the defense , and there was a split second stale mate, and then the offensive rucking crew pushed over the ruck. (it looked good)
  3. Since binding 3 players can happen fairly quickly, for a real Rugby simulation you should be able to add 2 extra players to the ruck on those rare occasions. This also changes the dynamics of the game, because there are less players ready to attack or defend by adding this many to the ruck, risk vs reward system.
  4. Contested tackle is nice if it worked well. And different players should have different animation on how quickly they can do it.
  5. So different scenarios is what would keep it fun, because different scenarios would include different button press combos.
  6. Seeing to many 1 player clearing out 3 offensive players in the ruck. In the case the defender arrives first to the ruck , he should just get steal/ possession of the ball, that should be the animation, not clearing out 3 players. Clearing out should happen when the ruck is evenly contested and the other team adds more players(that is why up to 5 is important) to get that push over with 3-5 players when the ruck is evenly contested and could happen on both offense and defense. I have hope that the current system will improve, although without the ability to add up to 5 , it does not have an opportunity to be a great system.
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Great post Lionmaul. I agree with pretty much all of that. I’m just going to respond to your numbered points.

  1. Your jackling point is spot on, the risk of penalty from holding on does need to be balanced of course to ensure that there is a chance of getting away with it, but also a chance of being penalised. I’m not sure if it’d work, but is there a place potentialy for a “kill the ball” type of option for the defensive side if done well? If you got away with that, then it goes to scrum similar to Rugby World Cup 2011?
  2. That sounds great, but would be even better if it wasn’t just adding players button bashing as fast as you can on the button, but swift, timed presses as each player hits the ruck. I wouldn’t mind if a perfect hit on the ruck was accompanied by a slightly louder sound of impact, indicating to the user that they’ve timed it exactly.
  3. Totally agree, you should be able to add the fourth and fifth players to a ruck.
  4. Yes, contested tackle definitely needs to work well.
  5. Agree.
  6. Absolutely, you can’t have one player clear out three, but of course if one player is there quickly enough a steal should happen and then if he’s immediately tackled then a new ruck contest begins. Your clearing out point is perfect.
    It would be great if they can nail down a proper ruck contest and correct animations for these scenarios, because done well it’d really elevate the game.
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Just some further thoughts on the issues with ruck play being very vague and at times slow and unresponsive. Here are my thoughts on the current state of rucks and what I feel could help.

Currently possession at the ruck seems to be decided by a mysterious guessing game based on things like:

Why are my player not joining the ruck - they’re at it!
Who did I just add to the ruck?
Is pushing the Bind to Ruck button making a difference once you’ve added three players?

When is the best time to push Steal?
Is Steal actually something I (Push Once) (Hold Down), (Tap Away At)?
Is pushing Steal actually doing anything at this ruck?

How does the Contest Tackle button work?
Does it work at all (or is it like Bump Off and doesn’t)?
Does the Contest Tackle Button only have some effect whilst in a standing tackle attempt as some form of influence on the following ruck giving you more chance of possession with Bind?
Is Contest Tackle actually something I (Push Once) (Hold Down), (Tap Away At)?

Do I just rapidly mash Bind Player (Circle), Steal (Square) and Contest Tackle (Triangle), all at once in the hope of posession changing? (This seems to work at times).

Is all of this fruitless? Is it just a battle of Stat vs Stat (stats of players added vs stats of players added once three have been added?)

If it is mostly just a battle of stat vs stat, then possession has ceased to be a game and is just for the most part a product of luck. There are days in real rugby where someone who’s not the worlds best player at turnovers can get one against better players.

Big Ant MUST refine this into an actual game we play. A swiftly timed skill based mechanism needs to be employed with player stats a minor-medium influence in the background. If it needs a meter or a differing coloured circle around the feet of the players contesting the ruck or attempting a steal then so be it, the purists can switch it off if they want.

None of the above is helped by players standing around near rucks despite controller input. There are MANY instances of my player making a tackle alone, or being in a standing tackle and button input of contest tackle or Steal is doing nothing.

In a one on one standing tackle situation, we could be pushing contest tackle rapidly in a standing tackle to attempt a strip (it could come down to how quickly we got to pushing contest tackle in the first place, followed by minor influences of player position (Lock on Winger for example) and stamina).

In a one vs one tackle that has gone to ground, Contest Tackle should be performed the same way, but we should be seeing our tackler very quickly getting back to his feet and going for the ball (but we don’t see this animation at all).

Steal should be attempted by the first players coming to the tackle just as it is about to become a ruck. With these players we should be tapping steal swiftly and if there is a meter above (like Rugby World Cup 2011) you could see it filling with each steal attempt. If you do it rapidly enough, then you could potentially hit a green zone where you’ve stolen it, or a red zone (you’ve done it too often over filling the meter or taken too long and been spotted by the ref). The amount of filling the meter gets with each press would depend on the ruck ability of the players in the ruck attempting the steal.

This would actually be a game! This would demonstrate visually to players what is going on! And to those who dislike meters, it could be switched off!

I really think we need to make rucks a game!!! Bugs with players standing around need fixed and we shouldn’t have to release the left thumbstick to bind players to the ruck in the first place.

By the way, the recent HOLD BALL IN button needs a bit more leeway as far as how long you can hold it down, not quite long enough in my opinion. I’m not currently using it, because it’s almost an instant penalty.

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It could be wishful thinking, but I felt the few times the ruck turnovers should have happened it did. Now with the AI being able to hold on, it’s got to balanced and they should be penalized, particularly if isolated with the Y. Make sure you are not pressing the direction analog when binding, this will really disrupt how quickly you can bind, in saying that although there have been improvements it feels like sometimes they do not want to bind as quick of latest patch, particularly on defense , I am wondering if it creates an invisible forcefield when the AI is holding on, so that for a split second you can not join?
Not sure , just a theory, hopfully the holding on , was not implemented that way. I got tired of asking early on , what the intentions where with the ruck system. I have now come to the conclusion, we are not getting full instructions, because the system is not complete yet. Well, I am hoping that is the case. But I give credit that they try to change things, and some things like not as many 1 man Bulldozer steals, and addition of simple steals has been good, although, they still have to remove more of the bulldozer/ 1 player pushing over 3 animations. Now in saying this I still have to play the latest patch. But I do agree with most of things you say. And they must add ability to add 5 to the ruck, that will be a game changer.

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Thanks Lionmaul, I typed it without re-reading it and there’s a couple of things unclear and left out, but thanks for your thoughts.

I have played the new patch and what I have noticed is that if you are in a standing tackle situation and rapidly press Y (or Triangle on PS) that you don’t seem to win the ball from the tackled player then and there like a strip, but it seems to enhance your chance of winning with bind and steal when the tackled player goes to ground. Just like you I cannot be sure as it’s a unclear aspect of the game.

Yes I am finding that players are often binding slowly on defence also, so I am also unsure whether or not it’s a result of the AI attempting HOLD ON and creating some force field like effect, but I hope it’s not.

Yes it is better that there doesn’t appear to be any more bulldozer 1 on 3’s or things like that, the animations are looking better.

The adding up to 5 in the ruck does need to happen I agree, but to keep good game structure, it would be good if it would only allow a maximum of 2 backs to go into rucks at any one time (and I’d prefer the 10 didn’t get involved at all unless he was the tackler or tackled player).

The last two in for a 5 man ruck could be about attempting a counter ruck, provided they all hold their feet and the opposition has been slow to get in there and has 3 or less then it could be an occasion where they could use the “bulldozer” animation option.