Whats the Lowest Rated Team you can win with?

[MaD_Dragon_Rugby]

Hey guys, wanted to make a different thread out of a curiosity more than anything. Plenty of times since the game game out, the game was in a state where basically any team could beat any other team even on hardest difficulty. Theres even an achievement based on winning with a team rated 25 lower, which wasnt tough at launch.

3 months on, many changes to rucks, 50/22, handoff spam and all the rest off it. Wanted to see how hard it is to compete with lower rated teams to see if it was still doable/fair.

Nothing wrong with the hardest team being hard to beat, but wondering if its actually doable any more with low rated teams.

So for the Current Patch.
Playing against 90 rated South Africa on hardest difficulty, whats the lowest rated you can still beat them with, and whats stopping you from going lower?

[MaD_Dragon_Rugby]

Played some matches today, and lowest ive got down to is 60 Rated, with Guatemala.
Below 70 felt tough.
But since hitting 60. Game feels very tough, you have abiut 20 minutes in the 1st half where you can remain competitive. But after the opening 20, I cant win a ruck, like not 1. Mine or theirs.
AI wins 100’% of lineouts as long as the choose front jumper.
50/22 unstoppable because full back is slow. And the handoff/offload chain of the AI means they get through for a try. Can start 80m out or 5m out, and they just march on.

[keo15]

I already won several matches in hardest difficulty with Lybia, Palestine, American Samoa, Lichtenstein, etc against New Zealand, France, South Africa… but I didn’t keep the record.

I’ll do it for the future.

[MaD_Dragon_Rugby]

I swapped to end camera which in classic Rugby 25 fashion changes the way it plays. Managed to win with Guatemala, suddenly on end camera, team didnt just drop off at 20 mins, and even won numerous 5 v 1 ruck turn overs. So strange.
Playing on the Xbox because cant be bothered booting up the PC, the amount of brand new broken things is crazy, south africa on xbox have telekinesis ability and pass the ball any way they want

[MaD_Dragon_Rugby]

Gave one of your matches a go and tried with Palestine. Even swapping to end on camera, just cannot get the ball off them. Takes 4 tackles at every phase because they hand off, and even with 5 players in the ruck and them not having anyone for ages, not a single turn over. Was able to hold on to the ball from the first kick off for 30 seconds. Then never touched it again for the remainder of the half.

[keo15]

Last Palestine v South Africa I played I lost for sort of the same result as yours, but I stole 5 rucks being the first arriving there.

With the current state of the game, I’m sure it is hardest than several weeks ago. I’ll try again.

PS5, hardest, side camera

[keo15]

Then Fly-halves get mad when you tell them that they don’t run…

Full stamina for him

[MaD_Dragon_Rugby]

Youre doing far better than me. I actually gave that Chhatak game a go, and lost 35-0. Actually had more posession than I did when Ive used teams in the mid 50s.

But I cant think of a way you can actually currently win (again playing on xbox rather than PC, may have something to do with that because SA can actually score illegal tries on the xbox and they still count.)
I dont think theres anything wrong with the challenge of beating the top rated team vs lowest rated team being extremely difficult, because it SHOULD be.
Winning the world cup with Russia on RWC 2011, is such a hard challenge, and may litterally require a 3-0 win from a drop goal. But it can be done if you are good enough.

R25 has the issue that theres too much in the game that to me it doesnt feel like its doable based on you being good, almost feels like luck. Getting the ball back with the rating differential so high is crazy difficult. AI take the ball off you for fun. Back 3 just let them make easy territory. If the AI pick front jumper at lineout they win 100% no matter where you throw. Cant win on opponents scrum. And then the sidestep-offload cycle means you commit a quarter of your team every phase just to tackle the player. Sometimes you get a magic turnover then a 50m break and they dont tackle you, but doesnt feel like you outplayed them, more you just got lucky and scored.
(Happy to also accept if everyone else is actually able to beat the with ease and maybe I just suck at the game )

But I think it better outlines the flaws in the game looking at the extremes. The challenge should feel doable, but you need to play very well. But when you cant win a scrum, lineout, 95% of the rucks, cant kick for territory and cant tackle 2 to 1. And Ox Nche is outspringing my wingers after 30 mins. Im not sure what players are meant to do

I just thought it would be interesting to see how everyone gets on in each update with lower rated players to see if the ability to play is getting better. And think maybe if the BigAnt guys join in to when play testing, they may see other big flaws with mechanics already in the game, even if people have flagged them in FAQ before.

[TheRugbyMan]

Done a few but feel I just get frustrated most of the time due to issues with the game as mentioned AI just purely cheats or you score tries but it gets called held up because you got tackled, I felt AI scores most tries because when changing players on defense AI just gives you the wrong player or the player won’t react on your inputs for a second or 2

[Rugger]

I just want to say, for me, this is stupid! These lower ranked teams were included to be part of the game to represent the world in union. They were never included so that a tier 3 and beyond team could ever beat a Tier 1 nation. Why on earth would you ever be ok with a team like Estonia to beat mighty Springboks? Play against teams with the same overall, then it will be equal and enjoyable, as it should be. Play Qatar vs Pakistan ect or Boks vs All Blacks, not the other way around. Ungreatful for the effort to include all these teams, thats what it sounds like!!!

[TheRugbyMan]

No one said it is a bad thing, some like to challenge them selfs playing with weakest teams against the best and all honestly difficulty it gives is actually what hardest should give you when playing same rated teams but atm playing same rated teams you smash them easily 30+

[Rugger]

I understand that, but then it’s the AI that’s crap and needs to be improved. But some people here complain that it’s impossible to play as a low rated team against a top team, which should be the case. They were not included to beat Tier 1, 2 or 3 nations, they were included to part of the game, not to become world beaters.

[Rugger]

100%. I’'ve never tried playing on easy in any rugby game ever. It’s sad that it’s become a pattern for all rugby games. AI suck and they cant get them to be good

[Bapean]

Since when Wales and England are T1 and Japan and Fiji T2 ?

[Rugger]

Played with Guatamala against France just now, was level 42-42 all after 60 odd minutes before game crashed… I was able to defend my own ruck most of the time, which is what I would want to see happen and I was able to force a couple of turnovers from their ruck, so I would say it’s very much possible to still get the achievement. Match was actually great to play!!!

France 88 rating
Guatamala 60 rating

[MaD_Dragon_Rugby]

I think youve misunderstood the point of the thread. I doubt in the real world any of the 40 rated teams would ever be able to take on a fully stacked Springboks or All Blacks side. Not even sure how a match would be arranged in the real world.
But this is a video game. BigAnt went to the effort to travel the world and collect data/facescans/official kits, for more teams than any other rugby game ever, so all these teams can feature in 1 game, and face off against each other. If they didnt want you to take on a 90 rated team with a 40 rated team, the game wouldnt let you.
You cant play Walaroos vs Wallabies, because they locked out the genders from playing against each other.
But they did themselves add the achievement to beat a team rated 25+ more than you.
Which means many people will want to play those tough challenges, for the achievement or the fun.

So there should be the possibility to take on these matches as a test of your ability. The games should be hard, you may take 20-30 attempts, maybe you grind out a 1 point win after defending your own 5m line for the last 20 minutes.
The point is, the game and the mechanics should allow the player to take on any team with any other team, and their own skill level determines if they can win.

Playing lower rated vs higher rated is a good way to find flaws in the existing system.
Take lineouts for example. When ratings are about 15 rated lower, if the AI chooses a jumper equal, or closer to the thrower, they WILL win the linout, doesnt matter where you throw. So if they just pick front jumper, you physically cannot win a lineout, and theres no work around.
Thats a flaw, that could be looked in to, that you may not realise if you only play NZ vs SA 200 times in a row.

It also bleeds in to multiplayer, changes that have come mean you cant really player with low rated teams on multiplayer any more. Theres a livestream I did shortly after release where I played against the Rugby Guru as Cyprus and he was New Zealand. And I barely lost the game (because conversion mechanics suck), and it was an incredibly enjoyable game, and was also a way to showcase a team like Cyprus, who never get representation in rugby, and got people excited for the underdog in a big match up. The game probably wasnt “as good” back then, but atleast the option to compete with a lower rated team was on the cards. And the mechanics werent against you instantly just for picking a lower rated team.
Being able to win a game with a low rated team isnt some way to bash the Tier 1 teams, it should be looked at as a positive achievement in a test of player skill.

Im also not sure what the other options are in this game. Playing same rated teams on this game is neither equal nor enjoyable, if you sit down and just play NZ vs SA you just win by 40 points on hardest. So if you never play as lower rated teams because you dont feel that represents rugby union properly, do you just play endless games of same rated teams, winning all of them by 40 points and never challenge yourself.

We also need the rugby community to grow. Bigant have actually done a great step with going to the effort of gathering all these teams in 1 game. But put yourself in the shoes of someone who lived in Cyprus their whole lives, never seen their team at the world cup, never seen their team in the world ranking top 10, never see your team in big tournaments broadcast on TV. You finally pick up a rugby game that has YOUR national team on it. And you want to take on the big teams you see in the world cup in TV, you want to take on NZ or SA or France. Imagine the excitement of giving that challenge a go, only to find out the mechanics might litterally make it impossible. And if its impossible, then why bother playing?

The idea of the thread is 1 to show off how good you are at the game by saying how big of a challenge you can win with a low rated team. But 2, to find out what mechanics simply stop players from being able to progress with the challenge of playing with an even lower rated team. Because fixing the mechanics on the extremes, helps tighten the mechanics for more equal match ups, and suddenly might make a game like NZ vs SA feel enjoyable. Rather than a walkover.

[MaD_Dragon_Rugby]

100%. Yeah the missed tackle count seems to only count when getting through a player using the right analog stick, but ive notived as ratings get lower, the handoffs work less and less. So even though the AI get through 4 players per phase, you cant get through 1 using the same thing. So they never miss or slip off a tackle.

[Rugbygamer40]

Beating the Lions 42-21 with QLD Reds.

Lions 87 overall. Reds 80.

Set on the Hardest Difficulty. PS5.

Match was too easy. It was a disappointing match as not enough fight or attacking display from the Ai controlled Lions.
As I mentioned in a post this week, seems that there is an invisible “Momentum” shift in the game but too much momentum goes to the user team once they score a Try. From there it gets easier to score and Ai defence gets more weaker.

Also two high tackles by QLD Reds players. The Referee did not sin bin or send off the offending players