categorise them in the following order would help:
Props-low speed
Hookers-medium/low
Locks-medium
flanker/eightman-medium/high
scrunhalf/wings/fullback-very high
flyhalf/centres-high
@JNT_BA @MattW Will there ever be a patch where actual rules will apply, for example penalties for actual offsides? Will we ever be able to tackle with an offside player, will there be ball spills/knock-ons for big tackles. Also how is it possible for a smaller player to just give big tackles to bigger forwards, for example the diving tackle from the front, is that not suppose to be a high tackle. When are you fixing the left footed kicking?
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I actually like the speed of the game now, the only issue is speed to rucks, forwards need a bit more urgency/back occasionally join rucks in wider channels/when the nearest forward is a certain distance away from a ruck. If possible i think assigning another button for backs to join a ruck might help.
I have noticed that āholdingā the ball in attack is much more important now, which is what i think the developers are going for. Theres even a āreleaseā warning but its the wrong way around, its warning the attacking player to release the ball, this isnt how it works in real rugby union. the defending jackaler should be the one being warned to release the ball/tackled player if a ruck has already been formed.
It needs tweaking but i can see some of the logic with it
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@JNT_BA The rear must also be able to go into the rucks, otherwise the rucks are slow - this update is a step backwards only at the level of the rucks, otherwise it brings the fluidity of logic in the game even if they remain work.
Force big ant
Personally I think positsions is a good way to create the baseline for what speed means. In a perfect world. All players attributes would be crafted by hand for each player. But with 140 teams, all of which containing like 40 players. I think its a slighlty unreasonable expectation at this point.
I think establishing what āspeedā looks like on the field is important. And I would imagine there are some real life tracked stats that could support it. Like in american football the 40 yard dash is like its own thing you can watch on TV right?
Surely theres something in rugby where players have had their top speeds clocked in training, or when transfering to a new team. If BMI is known, I would imagine 25m sprint (or even better a 100m sprint) time is something tracked by clubs.
Rugby pitches have markings for all sorts of distances, so once you know the players real speed, you can align the timings to run that distance in real life, with running that far on the pitch, to give you an accurate representation of how fast that player can run.
Fastest in the world probably Bielle Biarrey or Kolbe, so that speed then gets established in the high 90s or something. And using other international players speeds to do the same thing you could work out a baseline of speeds, and what that visually represents on the field. And do that for all positions, with modifieres like BMI and so on to impact stamina, fatigue and other elements as the match goes on.
Once the speed representation has been nailed for every position. You that have a basline fir everyteam in the game and what they should align with.
I dont expect BigAnt to go through every player on every team and find these stats, but the 20 world cup teams especially should have that applied as those are the teams most people use, and obviously the international coverage trickles down in to club level, which then gives club players a baseline to work from.
I think finding a representative value for other teams in the game based on their position isnt terrible, and you can see it when playing as some of the 60 rated teams, that subs being brought on have identical attributes to the olayer they are being subbed on for, so its already kind of implemented.
I would suggest once a baseline of speed was worked out, it would be worth going through the licenced teams with face scans done to establish any players that sit outside the norm and teak their values. Like seeing Henry Pollock run, you can instantly tell he is faster than Josh VDF, even though they play the same position, and in the game I would expect VDF to be rated higher as an internation on a high rated Ireland team.
Then those tweaked players will stand out a bit more.
But i do think positions is a better way for it to be looked at than āforwardsā and ābacksā. Because forwards have so much varience from the different positions. Even props different a bit, with tighthead props probably on average being slower than loosehead props. But that might be really picking at hairs.
One of the big things for me to to not have players limited by their teams Rating, which I think has happenned in other rugby games. A team rating should be independent of certain attributes for a player. Teams like Georgia and Portugal ofcourse have a lower rating than Ireland or New Zealand. But players like Niniashvilli and Storti for the respective teams, have speeds that exceed basically everyone in their teams, and it should be reflected. I would expect Niniashvilli to catch Andrew Porter after making a linebreak, even if Porter could break the tackle due to being higher rated, lower rated Backs should still have the speed to chase down forwards.
I think the problem for this update is the pendulum has swung too far the wrong way - in Update 19 you could make a line break on your own try line with a prop, and they could outrun every player on the pitch and score a 100m try which is rediculous. Whereas in update 20, it doesnt even look like forwards have the ability to sprint. Holding sprint looks like a jog, and for a tiny distance at that. As with many of the updates over this games release, it feels like for some reason the healthy middleground gets missed. Either the tweaks are so minor its not really noticeable, or other updates (like this one with speed) the jump goes from 1 extreme that people werent enjoying, to the completely opposite extreme, which people also dont enjoy.
I dont know how any of the changes work from a game dev standpoint obviously. But lets say forwards had a speed value of 10 in update 19.
It feels like theve been changed to a speed value of 2 in update 20. So an easy temp fix would be to set the value to 5 or 6. (Whatever that translates to in to what you guys work with on your end), so that they have some speed, but not so much that they make 100m tries of a single carry repeatedly because nobody can make a recovery tackle once a line is broken.
12 Likes
Iāve been playing the game a whole lot more and have discovered via playing two-player offline multiplayer that there seems to be some issues with the priority system for forwards over backs as it stands anyhow.
I had several instances where a flanker would not join a ruck, he seemed to wait and wait until members of the tight 5, props and locks would join. I would really hope that the priority system is supposed to be any forward joining as soon as possible, not even slightly tilted towards props and then locks and then flankers. If so that would need to be changed, as it seems how it is right now, some forwards are waiting for others to join, in a weird scenario where it seems like they donāt think itās their turn.
I think another point is that over a longer sprint a ball carrying player is nearly always able to continually out sprint a non-ball carrying player. Iāve done a lot of sprints in my time and Athletics and I can tell you you donāt go as fast if you would be carrying anything. The ball carrier really needs to be able to be run down by similar speed and faster players.
Love watching your videos, always good to see what the next patch holds before I get it on PS5. 
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I think that each player jas his own pace and speed , so the BA has just to use this notation and respect itā¦ Bielle Biarrey is a winger but doesnāt have the same speed as for exemple Moefana who can play winger tooā¦ For me its very simple, all players have differents notes and you have to respect itā¦ If not it means that all the players of All the teams are similarā¦ So its ridiculous ..
Cheers mate. Yeah its an issue with every update, other issues that werent prevalent before suddenly get thrown in to the spotlight.
Ivs noticed flankers also hold back from rucks. I also noticed flankers are on the wrong side in scrums, so might be the case that the flankers roles arent locked in fully.
Or could be the case that with the switch to 5 player rucks, that actual mechanics is not a case of 5 empty slots to fill with players at a ruck, but more 5 empty slots, but only certain positions can fill the slots. So the first 3 are locked to players with shirt numbers 1-5. Then the remaining 2 slots are available to all, but thats the first open slots for back row players to join?
Who knows.
POTENTIAL FIX FOR RUCK SELECTION
Attempting to work with the system they have in the game, I would think a solution to the ruck selection priority issue would be:
-In a ruck there are 5 open slots
-The first 3 button presses prioritise the nearest forwards to be added. You can also add the extra 2 if need be once the 3 are in the ruck.
-But if your player is isolated, you press the button 5 times which automatically allows all slots to open up, and that way nearby backs can fill 2 spots quickly, to secure the ball until your forwards arrive.
Alternatively
-Make B button press add 1 forward in to the ruck, while making X add 1 back to the ruck.
This way the player can assess who are the nearest players to the tackle and add the players they want to support the ruck.
If you play more conservatively playing 1 off passes near forwards you can focus on only adding forwards.
But if you play expansive and always want to go to the wingers, it requires players to have a higher level of skill to pick which players need to enter the ruck. And will also reduce the amount of offloads, because spamming offload after tackles will leave you with an isolated winger easy for the turnover. And so people might take it in to contact more, and just add those outside backs in to rucks.
OUTSPRINTING PLAYERS
-Yeah thats an annoying one, been an explout since EA. It feels more like if you control a player, they can sprint faster than non controlled players, but stamina drops whereas other dont. When kick chase is on. Its currenty better after the kick to just swap to a prop, let the AI run your winger up the pitch for you, then swap to them late and sprint to beat the defender.
Hard balance to get right with the fatigue system too.
I played a game last night playing a 60 rated team because i was testing drop goals. And them running all over the field chasing kicks meant by half time the whole team lost all their stamina wheres mine didnt. So Non controlled players seem to drop in fatigue even if on a single run their stamina holds up better than your controlled player.
5 Likes
Some feedback on the update, surprisingly I donāt mind the pace too much now, forwards are clearly too slow but still, it makes sense that they can not make breaks like wingers now, however, they must be able to enter the ruck quicker. I think everyone agrees with this so I wont labour on it. Some other points here:
- Chip Kicks - I noticed now that chip kicks go a bit higher, which is good, but this should be button press dependent, the longer I hold the chip kick it should go higher and further. - Also need some aerial contests and penalties for late tackles.
- Box kicks - I think with box kicks, the trajectory should always be āup and underā even if you go for a shorter one, now if you go for a shorter one it doesnt get high enough.
- Penalties - It would be great if there would be some sort of focus on implementing union penalties (offsides dont work, late tackles).
- Player controlled AI Positioning - I think if we could just adjust depth, running lines and also defensive positioning - For example, if we pull people out of the ruck using the unbind, they should immediately fan out in the defensive line, and the other players should move out accordingly.
@JNT_BA I liked this update despite the overly slow forwards and ruck issues, at least the game has a different pacing now, I do think it was too fast before, now the team needs to fine tune it and please pass on a focus on fixing the rules.
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Lions announced and yet we canāt play with them because Big Ant wont allow team editing and concentrates on improving stability 
which fixes what they broke the update beforeā¦ Come on, time to step up now!
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When Baltic Herrings ? @Valhalla_Vagabond
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Well after a few games now Iāve not conceded a point PS5 HARDEST so itās on the back burner now till next Wednesday now, 
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Yeah, Iām still playing it on hardest, but yet to have a point scored against me.
AI draw and pass is apparently out there, but I havenāt seen it yet sadly.
The slowness of forwards to rucks and centres and wingers standing there watching is starting to wear thin though.
Itās less like prioritization and more like they just wonāt go in at all.
4 Likes
Just waiting to see if BA release a quick fix within 24 hrs for the forwards stats as per the above posts to speed them up based on player stats, if not, im rarring this 3237 version up, can go back to it (Steam) if things get worse from here. I kept some other older versions where things were looking up, its hard when to know when to do so tbh. I feel for the console players who cant do this unless they do a PS5 backup but im not sure if the auto updates will keep it up to date by default, meaning older versions cant be still used. Doing PS5 backups of a 90gb game + all the save games and extra data it backs up (even with no other games installed, can still add on an extra 15-20gb in most cases. Xbox, not booted my XBSX up for about 2 years, forgotten how it does game backups.
Played a match, first for a week, and got to say, probably the best game Iāve had on R25
Biggest gripe is support runners and attacking shape; I find it so hard to put phases together with the ball unable to go through the hands. Players are lining up behind one another once a break is made rather than being available to catch an offload
Also, too many turnovers. Again, hard to build phases
But it felt a step in the right direction to me. Also feels the prem teams are now fully sorted for licensing? Be nice to be officially playing at the stoop rather than Langhorn Drive soon
After a few games I believe the new update makes gameplay better.
The fact that the forwards run slower add a bit more strategy to the game, because you have to decide when to add 1 or 2 players to a ruck, or involving many more, risking a turnover and less players covering outside.
It is true that the only players that should never participate in rucks are 9, 10 an maybe 15. Wingers and centres have to get in there if they are the first to arrive.
Also, when a player is isolated and my forwards get there earlier there should be a turnover or a penalty. It has happened that there has been 3 players on top of an opponent tackled player and I necer got the turnover. The AI should be also be penalised with not releasing.
Still cant make sidesteps though, it I ever do one it is unintentionally.
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I almost never miss a conversion how it is right now. It is too easy and Iād like to see them make the wind have more effect to provide more challenge.
Why people are getting mis-conversions (or those kicks that just go nowhere) is because they are not doing the motion of the down and up on the analog stick correctly.
How it is supposed to be done is a smooth movement that I can probably best describe this way.
Hold the analog stick continuously down (as the power bar grows), at the moment it hits enough power swing the analogue stick up and hold it there until the ball has been struck and is in the air.
You cannot let the stick go or stall at any point throughout either movement or you will get a dud kick.
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Completely agree. I was destroying teams on medium difficultly. So i put it on hardest difficultlyā¦exactly the same results. No difference between difficulty levels. AI is so easily predictable 
PC Steam Hardest
Following the new patch, there is a small but noticeable improvement in the AIās ball play. It is however still pretty much school boy level tactics. The AI is still afraid of space and exploiting glaringly obvious overlaps. Iām praying that a plan is being developed for a tactical kicking game where the AI can really focus on playing a territorial battle, whether it be 50-22s, up and unders, grubbers and kicks behind to force you to scramble. As it stands, all they do is box kick. Iām having some fun overall, but the AI is still very rarely scoring.
The rucks are ok for me. Itās just the players sometimes take to long to bind.
Iām neutral on the reduced speed of the forwards. On the one hand it adds a bit of strategy, but on the other hand, players like Ben Earl and Henry Pollock show that perhaps the backrow should be given an exception because they are certainly no slouches. i have no problems with the front row and locks, because it was ridiculous going the length of the field with joe marler ffs haha
There is a minor passing bug, which results in some passes being flung out to touch.
The mauls need to be harder too, but really the team need to keep focusing on the AI for now.
The fly half NEEDS to be available for first receiver on all occasions, unless he is buried in a ruck. When i hold the pass button its a bit frustrating when he is not selected. Please please look into this.
Iāve maintained since EA that this can easily be the best every rugby game and it is slowly getting there. If we can just focus all efforts on making the AI a challenge that will really help. Thats where the replay value will really hold up
Final thing. i didnāt realise that you could actually edit international squads in the career. Why canāt this then be done outside of career mode? it makes no sense.
Thanks for your efforts.
4 Likes
Soo, Iām guessing a hotfix for :
The Forwards not being nearly quick enough to rucks.
11-14 not joining the rucks
the Flankers waiting for other forwards to arrive
The forwards now being slightly too slow overall
isnāt likely to be coming this week unfortunately. 
2 Likes