When the patch(es) are released, are we going to get proper patch notes? Like the Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition ā Update 107882 patch notes I canāt link to for some reason?
Or just the barebones āroadmapā re-posted?
@JNT_BA @RossSymons ā¦ quick question why are the NEW draftees coming into the game next month?? Shouldnāt they be in the first patch with the photogrammetry of players attending the draft?
Also ANY insight what we can expect with the game and season fixture āupdateā ??
Iāve played through a full season now so hereās my review/comments/hopes for the future. I wanted to wrap up an entire season now so that I have a good base understating of how the game works to be able to assess the impact of the upcoming patches on the experience.
Context: I have the Xbox version and have only ever played it with the latest patch installed. So, I never experienced firsthand the absolute disaster that PC and PlayStation gamers had to endure at launch. Those poor bastards. I played a handful of single matches to get my head around the controls, before diving into Season mode. I havenāt touched Management mode (which doesnāt deserve to be played in its current state) or the Academy (not interested in mucking around with that on console with a controller. We were promised a stand-alone Steam version like the cricket games but well ā¦ broken promises will be a recurring theme here). Iāve only played single matches and Season mode. On easy too, as Iām not going to put in the time and effort into learning to play the game as it currently exists on a harder difficulty, when so much of the experience needs to be overhauled and everything I learned would have to be re-learned anyway.
Back in the day I won the premiership in AFL Live on the hardest difficulty, so Iām not totally hopeless at these games, itās purely because this game isnāt worth the effort in its current form.
I also want to make it clear that none of my criticisms of the game are directed personally at the programmers, animators etc etc etc that made the game. Making games is hard, and I have no idea what kind of constraints the team were put under by the powers that be. It wasnāt Programmer Aās decision to release the game in the state it was in. It wasnāt Animator Bās decision to promise the world on BigFooty and deliver none of it. It wasnāt UI Designer Cās decision to position Pro Team front and centre in the launch trailer and then ā¦ not launch it. It wasnāt Artist Dās decision to try and release AFL, Cricket, Rugby and Tennis games in one year. Any one of these people could earn a lot more money in any other industry (finance, mining, whatever) but are passionate about games. And that passion can be used against them. I really hope you guys can turn this around.
Iāll start with my absolute favourite gameplay mechanism. When I take a mark, I can kick the ball straight away without twiddling my thumbs waiting for my player to go back behind the mark etc, and thereās nothing the opposition can do about it. Iām not sure if this is only something that can be done on easy difficulty, but it makes the game so much more free flowing than say Evo 2, where I would want to throw my controller in anger when seeing a free player get manned up that I could have passed it to if only the game would let me. The only way this should be nerfed is if the entire game is overhauled. Which Iāll get to in a bit. The graphics (for the most part) are great, at ball ups and what not the little incidental bumps and pushes look great too. In goal replays some of the animations look really wonky and stuff but I can look past that if the gameplay is up to scratch.
The major issues that have been spoken about ad nauseum (stuck in mud, teleporting players, lack of contested play, handballs that donāt go where theyāre supposed to, players flat out ignoring controller input, broken AI) are all still there in the current build. They might not be as bad as they once were, but they are all still present and accounted for. Iām working the ball forward, I take a mark in say the middle of the ground, and instead of streaming forward in support, my teammates are running around like headless chooks. We were told that AFL assistant coaches had input into the AI. All I can say is that either their advice was ignored, assistant coach-powered AI was ripped out of the game because other parts of the game were broken, or the claim was a lie to begin with. Either way the AI is broken. Nothing about the way the playerās running patterns, positioning, behaviour off the ball etc in any way resembles actual football.
Which brings me to my next point. Say assistant coach-powered AI exists in the Big Ant vault ready to be reinserted into the game. Great! I have players streaming past in support. I fire off a quick handpass. And the ball doesnāt go where I expect it to. Instead of going to the guy running past me in support, it goes zooming 30m (in the same direction, so thereās that I guess) to a player who immediately gets tackled. Or worse (and this is still a thing), it goes completely the wrong direction. And because my team is streaming forward, I get murdered on the counterattack. Fixing the AI means fixing the handballing. All the major issues with this game are interrelated. You cannot fix one in isolation. Iāve played a lot of sports games, and the handballing behaviour in this is something Iāve never witnessed before. Being able to pass the ball reliably is absolutely fundamental to these types of games, and you canāt do it in AFL 23.
I lay a tackle. Both players go down. I now have three players just standing there looking at the two players on the ground. They cannot do anything until the umpire blows the whistle. AFL is at its core a contested game. We talk about contested balls, contested marks, contested possessions etc and the game does record all these stats, but itās an illusion. Everything is a one-on-one ācontestā. If a pack forms, only two players can actually impact the ball at any one time, itās either a mark or a spoil. The other players are just window dressing. You canāt nudge players off the ball, you canāt block (legally or otherwise), you canāt really force a two on one marking contest and even if it looks like one, it isnāt really. Say you have two of your players and one opposition player standing together. You take the mark. Your teammate, instead of streaming forward will either just stand there, and if you dish out a quick handpass, heāll be āstuck in mudā (because heās stationary) and immediately tackled, or heāll decide to sprint backwards instead of forwards. That AI-controlled player has no understanding of the game situation. The AI is broken. As a player, your only real option here is to kick the ball. Kick and mark, kick and mark, kick and mark. Rinse and repeat.
I do believe thereās method to the stuck in mud madness. It does take a while for someone to go from stationary to moving at speed. In theory, as a gameplay mechanism, I have no problem with that. My issue is that if the AI performed like AFL players, the number of times that a player would be stuck in mud would be greatly diminished or even eliminated outside of your ball up situations. Players should be streaming forwards and backwards etc as the state of the game dictates, not standing around or running to places where they cannot impact the game, and therefore ruling themselves out as a passing option.
Teleporting players though, or the random speed boosts where a player will suddenly appear and take possession out of nowhere or tackles you from 5m away, thatās just broken and needs to be eliminated.
There have also been times where I will be pushing the analog stick in one direction, and my player just outright ignores my commands and moves in another direction. I donāt know if this is some sort of auto-aim type thing thatās being used to disguise shortcomings elsewhere, but itās also a broken mechanic that needs to be eliminated. It was also something that AFL Live did back in the day.
I think that covers all the major GAMEPLAY issues. And they all have to be fixed together. I suspect this is why the game is the way it is, because if you fix one in isolation (say, make handballing actually work so you can flick the ball around reliably and quickly like a real game) without fixing the AI, youāre going to end up in a situation where you win everything by 100+ points on hard without breaking a sweat. The game feels like in was deliberately designed to be clunky to disguise shortcomings elsewhere. Like the throw it on the boot clearance kick in Evo 2. Or how in Evo 2 you would always have a free player in the back pocket after conceding a behind because itās easier to do that than have better AI when bringing the ball back into play.
Good luck!
Now for the less critical issues. I posted earlier how the in-game season stats appear to actually show career stats. That needs to be fixed. And so does the issue where when the finals start, all those stats disappear and you get a pop up saying your 100 goal full forward has kicked 0 goals for the season. Speaking of 100 goal full forwards, there is nothing in-game, no commentary, no crowd reaction, no player reaction, nothing to mark that achievement. Yet pre-release so much hype was given to the coin toss of all things no one cares about. Time and effort should have been given to acknowledging an actual footballing achievement like booting 100 goals, than a pointless coin toss. I know that it wasnāt Animator Bās decision to put so much time and effort into the bloody coin toss, but man what I would have given if his time was spent on some sort of reaction to a 100 goal season, or something else that actually matters. Thank goodness I donāt support a team based at Marvel, or it would have been an even more pointless chore to sit through.
And speaking of achievements, there are no Achievements for winning the Coleman Medal, Norm Smith Medal, Brownlow Medal etc. actual footballing achievements, but there are ānegativeā achievements (like losing a match after leading at 3qtr time). And this one: Play for 5 real time minutes without the opposition touching the football (Single player against the AI only). Holy moly. I know this was easy when the game was first released on PlayStation and PC and the AI wouldnāt tackle or do anything, but has anyone actually unlocked this one who has only ever played a fully-patched game? I canāt imagine so. And why isnāt the AA team a thing in season mode? I can win the Brownlow, Coleman, Norm Smith ā¦ But thereās no AA team announcement? Why is this limited to Management mode? But in the grand scheme of things, Iāve called these āless criticalā issues and they absolutely are. If the choice is between fixing the AI and having Huddo say āAnd thatās 100 goals for the year! What an achievement!ā then fix the bloody AI, yeah?
Had I played Management mode Iām sure this post would be twice as long, so thereās that at least. Iām mostly interested in the core gameplay issues for now.
If the gameplay issues Iāve mentioned here can be fixed, then this will be a great game. I canāt wait to try them out when theyāre released. If they donāt address the fundamental issues with the game, then I canāt see anyone (outside maybe Chucky in the Academy) touching the game again. Which will be a real shame.
Just keep Ross away from social media and any forums if AFL 25 is ever announced, yeah?
When are we going to get a game that actually works?
No career canāt bump and the players stand for half a day if you play on from and mark and the ai racks you up half the time.
I got a copy each for me and my son and he gave up on it within 2 days I keep fighting on but now I can even get into the game!!
Iāve had a gutful be nice to get some cash back I think.
Iāll have to go back to n64 and play banjo coz the game actually works
Terrific post, although unfortunately I feel like youāre wasting your breath given how little care seems given to consumer feedback. I wonder if BA even check this thread anymore, other than to monitor overly critical posts.
I completely agree re the lack of accomplishment feeling, itās throughout the entire game. The stats debacle honestly makes it look like the developers have never watched the sport before or seen what sort of stats are usually highlighted during a game.
Even after kicking a goal, the camera angles, player celebrations, replays, etc are all so out of sync or just poorly executed. The lack of physicality (ie bumping) makes the game feel like such a Diet version of the actual sport.
There is sooo much to work with even in the current state but just a staggering level of critical detail and gameplay that isnāt anywhere near the level youād expect. Management mode is another mess altogether, which usually keeps me going in these games.
Fingers crossed for some big improvements in the upcoming patches.
i hope big ant adds trainings and tutorials also can big ant add a thing were if im playing a game and i need to exit out i can save that game and resume playing it when i hop back on
For your question, I take this to mean just the new draftees that werenāt at the Marvel Stadium draft will have their likenesses (heads) added in later.
Given the March 19 description, Iād expect all team lists to be updated, however those not at that Marvel Stadium draft day will have generic faces, until theyāre added on April 23.
Thanks!
I agree re: management mode. Career mode (where I will play as the entire team, rather than as a created player, which I assume is what itās like in this game) is the only mode I usually play in FIFA, but Iām not bothering with this one unless itās improved massively.
Season mode in just 22 single match games strung together. Might sound funny because thatās what a season is in a way, but the commentators for example have no understanding of how the season is unfolding. Iām assuming when they make references to the competing teams, the code only points to the teamās overall rating, rather than how the season is actually unfolding. So I can be multiple games clear on top, and Iām referred to as the underdog in every game. Or they can say I look every bit a top 8 side or something like that, when I secured the minor premiership 4 games ago.
The worst example was when I was playing the Grand Final, after going through the season undefeated, playing a team that pulled a Bulldogs and made it via the bottom half of the 8, and the commentator tipped that team saying theyād been the better team all year.
Wat.
It was like the old meme-wortthy moments from the IR Gurus games:
Iām tipping ā¦ Hawthorn
I disagree Dennis, I like ā¦ the Hawks
Derp
It just breaks any immersion you might feel. And thatās not even taking into account all stats are reset for the finals for some reason. Itās like a second little season tacked onto the home and away season instead of an exciting continuation. Not even the banners the teams run through refer to the fact youāre now playing finals footy. And the confetti and stuff that litter the field atfer the cup is presented are random colours instead of the winning teamās colours.
Minor stuff in the grand scheme of things, plenty of actual gameplay issues SHOULD be a higher priority, but these little things do add up.
Kinda like the whistle after a goal in Evo amirite?
They had better get this rightā¦
Rugby and Tennis in early accessā¦ Top spin coming back into the fold to kill their Tennis ambitionsā¦
Cricket 24 suffering from another poor release and still not shaping up as an improvement over 22
And the release of this game with all the bravado and chest beating pre launch and also with the AFL investment and cooperationā¦
Wellā¦IF they donāt get this right, or their next two launchesā¦
BA may as well start digging.
Theyāve gone from the darlings of niche sport developers to a laughing stock in 10 years.
Time to walk the walk
What a great post! Agree with nearly all of it!
The most telling issue to me is the āheadless chook AIā
Itās a perfect description.
You are right in saying they spruiked assistant coach inputā¦
The other issues are all real. But most of them you can see a kernel of optimism if they can tweak a few things. The mechanics are there, albeit in an unacceptable state.
The AI thoughā¦ badā¦
Itās almost like theyāve tried to create the chaos of AFL simply by making the off-the-ball AI act like ants under a magnifying glass.
i feel like no effort was put in management mode like if your not gonna have a player career mode at lease make management mode good.
Two days to go. Hopefully for everyoneās sake the patch improves gameplay, and the more general improvements reflect the 6 months of extra development time theyāve had to finish this thing.
Cricket was a carbon copy of 22 with small updated features, not exactly groundbreaking stuff. Rugby and tennis delayed massively with little to no communication again and no updates on AFL. I think bugger all is right considering how far behind on everything they are
It is almost the 19th. Time will tell.
I mean I hate the ideal of being creative on a deadline which is why I donāt work in Graphic Design anymore.
I know just as much as everyone else but I would doubt that itās a 12am update tonight, hopefully early-ish arvo or even morning if we are lucky.
Actually very keen to see what its going to include, ideally a good combination of a few fixes and some new content but from what has been described in the roadmap āGameplay and Season Fixture update including photogrammetry of players attending the draft at Marvel Stadiumā there really isnāt much to discuss in particular the Gameplay Update(s).
In about 24 hours from now I guess we will have a much better idea of what the direction of the game going forward will be, I am excited to see the patch notes tomorrow (I hope we get patch notes) and to test it out after all these months without an update. Not long to go now!!!
I am so excited for tomorow surely big ant canāt disappoint again
I wonder what time we get the update, I have a good feeling about this one. They have been quiet for a while, the timing has been good. Everyoneās in the footy mood after round 1, they for sure planned this out.
Apologies guys. Iāve locked the patch notes thread as I would always do. If we can keep the conversations going here rather than there to keep it all in one place would be great.
Has anyone got the new patch yet and if so what are some early thoughts about it 
??